Feb 04 2011

Ellie Kay answers questions about credit reports and tithing

Ellie Kay is America's Family Financial Expert and she is here to answer your money questions. Got a question for her? Feel free to email us at scottandkelli@klove.com. Also, she's got some great resources that can help you out on her website...check it out here: http://elliekay.com/

You can listen to Ellie's advice here.

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2/4/2011 5:06:43 PM
Annette United States
Annette
I just was listening to Ellie on klove & someone asked if she should tithe off of the net pay or gross from here company. the word of God says we should tithe from the first fruits. i just wanted to say that to me means pay check or from your business because it all belong to God. that is what i felt in my heart to say. love to listen to you Scott & Kelli.    
                  God Bless
                   Annette
2/4/2011 5:21:30 PM
Bascomb Grecian United States
Bascomb Grecian
Scott and Kelli,

Can I ask why you are advocating 10% tithing at all?
In the New Covenant……which we are in…..we are NOT called anywhere to tithe ANYTHING.

Jesus loves a cheerful giver: 2 Corinthians 9:7 -Does NOT Say tithe 10% of your income, does it???

"Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."


If you advocate 10% tithing…YOU ARE PUTTING CHRISTIANS UNDER LAW. MOSAIC LAW LEADS TO SIN AND DEATH.

2 Corinthians 3:7
[ The Greater Glory of the New Covenant ] Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was,


1.) We have new commands of giving (1 Corinthians 16:2; 2 Corinthians 9:7; Galatians 5:18-25).

2.) An OT ceremony paralleled the future Church with a freewill offering (Deuteronomy 16:10).

3.) Tithing is not the minimum amount mentioned in scripture (Romans 12:1; Matthew 25:24-28).

4.) A tithe only consisted of agricultural increase (Leviticus 27:30).

5.) The church is not commanded to follow the ordinances of Abraham and Moses (John 7:21-24).

6.) 10% giving is not an eternal principle nor a character trait of God (Romans 8:32).

7.) Tithing was used for the temple storehouse & ceremonial system (Nehemiah 10:37; Deuteronomy 12:17,18).

8.) There is NO command for the New Covenant Church to tithe (Genesis – Revelation).

9.) The Holy Spirit is our new teacher, not the Mosaic law (Romans 12:8; Galatians 5:18-25).


Stop putting Believers under law…..stop advocating 10% tithing.


Bascomb Grecian

Redding, California
2/4/2011 5:37:03 PM
Bascomb Grecian United States
Bascomb Grecian
Take the tithing test .... see if you know the answers....hint....ALL FALSE!


Take the following True or False quiz to see how much your really understand about tithing. We predict that many of you will be surprised. Record your answers.

1. The Lord Jesus Christ would have tithed. True or False?

2. Simon Peter, originally a fisherman, would have tithed of the fish that he caught. True or False?

3. Everyone in the Old Testament seeking to obey the Law of Moses would have tithed. True or False?

4. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek in the same way that believers tithe to the Lord Jesus Christ. True or False?

5. The Lord Jesus Christ taught His disciples that they should tithe. True or False?

6. There are many examples of people tithing of their incomes in the Bible. True or False?

7. The New Testament teaches that we should tithe to ministers in the same way that Jews tithed to the Priests. True or False?

8. The Bible teaches that God’s standard for giving is ten-percent. True or False?

9. The righteous poor tithed in the Old Testament. True or False?

10. Since everyone is held to the same standard, tithing is fair to everyone. True or False?

Bonus Question. The Bible teaches that everyone should give ten-percent of their ongoing income. True or False?

2/4/2011 5:38:16 PM
Bascomb Grecian United States
Bascomb Grecian
1. The Lord Jesus Christ would have tithed of His income. This one is false. The Lord Jesus Christ was a carpenter by profession and then after He became 30 years old He was a preacher and teacher. Neither of these professions was required by the Law of Moses to tithe anything.

2. Simon Peter, originally a fisherman, would have tithed of the fish that he caught. This one is false also. Fishermen were not required to tithe anything either. There were only two kinds of professions in ancient Israel that were required to tithe. Farmers and husbandmen (shepherds and cattle herders) were the only tithers in ancient Israel. They only tithed the food they produced.

3. Everyone in the Old Testament seeking to obey the Law of Moses would have tithed. It should be evident by now that this one is false also. There were many people with other professions who were not required by the Law to tithe. For instance, the apostle Paul being a tent-maker was not required to tithe. In fact, none of the Twelve apostles would have been tithers because none of them came from the required professions.

4. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek in the same way that believers tithe to the Lord Jesus Christ. This one is false also. Abraham’s tithe was very different than what the Church practices today. For instance, Abraham only tithed once. The Church tithes continually. Abraham tithed of the spoils of a war. The Church tithes of its income. Abraham had no increase because he gave the other 90% of the spoils of the war back to the original owner. The Church tithes of its increase. There is no commandment or any logic or indication in the New Testament that believers are to tithe anything to the Lord Jesus Christ. Believers are to give generously as God blesses them and whatever is in their heart according to Paul (2 Corinthians 9:7, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2).

5. The Lord Jesus Christ taught His disciples that they should tithe. False. Christ only makes three statements about tithing. None of these statements say that His disciples should tithe anything. Christ first statement, repeated in two Gospels, is spoken to the Pharisees not to His disciples. (Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42) In that statement, Christ says that the Pharisees should continue to tithe mint, dill and cummin. This is a tithe of food not money. He also says that this tithe of food is a part of the Law and says that it is not even an important part of the Law. His other statement is about a self-righteous Pharisee bragging that he tithes. Christ says that the other man who was not tithing who humbled himself was justified in the sight of God. The self-righteous tither was not justified in the sight of God. This is hardly an encouragement for Christ’s disciples to tithe money.

6. There are many examples of people tithing of their incomes in the Bible. False. In 4000 years of recorded biblical history there is not a single example of what the Church practices today in tithing money. There are two one-time acts of tithing recorded before the Law. Neither man, Abraham or Jacob, seems to think that they should continue this process beyond the one-time act. Neither man is tithing of their income since each is only involved in a one-time act. Abraham is tithing of the spoils of a war. Neither man seems to teach their children to tithe. All the other tithing recorded in the Bible is found in the Law of Moses. In the Law, money was never used to tithe only food. In fact, when someone wanted to use money rather than bring the produce to Jerusalem, God required a 20% penalty to be added. (Leviticus 27:30-31) In other words, God discouraged the tithing of money.

7. The New Testament teaches that we should tithe to ministers in the same way that Jews tithed to the Priests. False. The New Testament has nothing at all to say about this. This is extra-biblical logic that is not found in the New Testament. In fact, the Book of Hebrews makes it clear that believers are not of the Levitical order of priests. Believers are of a higher order, the order of Melchizedek.

8. The Bible teaches that God’s standard for giving is ten-percent. False. Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament teaches this. This is extra-biblical logic again. First of all, the food tithe in the Old Testament was not ten-percent. It was actually more like 23% annually on average. There were three tithes in the Law of Moses. The first tithe was paid only by agrarian families three times yearly at the feasts to the Priests in Jerusalem. The second tithe was saved by the agrarian families to support these trips. It was called the festival tithe. It was for a family vacation. The third tithe was given every three years to the local storehouse, so it amounted to about 3% annually. This was the poor tithe collected for those in need. This is the tithe that Malachi wrote about. None of these tithes were money. They were only food. Those who earned their livings by other occupations did not pay a tithe of anything. However, they did give offerings required by the Law some of which were in silver, gold, bronze and copper coins. Nowhere does the New Testament change this legal obligation of tithing food for some agrarian Israelites in the Law to money tithing for all Christians. This transformation of the food tithe to a money tithe is done by teaching that our harvest is our income and bringing us under a spiritualized form of the Law of Moses.

9. The righteous poor tithed in the Old Testament. False. The poor had no harvest or flocks to tithe from. They were able to glean the corners of the field of those who were more prosperous.

10. Since everyone is held to the same standard, tithing is fair to everyone. False. Tithing is incredibly unfair. Ten-percent of the income of a poor person is a great burden, while ten-percent of the income of a rich person may be no burden at all. If a person only has a $1000 a month income, then $100 of that income will affect their lifestyle and may even impact their ability to take care of their children’s basic needs and pay their bills. If a person has a $10,000 a month income then giving $1,000 per month should have little affect on their lifestyle since they should have a good amount of disposable income beyond their basic needs. If a person has a $100,000 a month income, then $10,000 a month has no appreciable affect on their lifestyle at all. Some continue to teach tithing to poor persons by arguing that if the poor person will give ten-percent of their income then God will bless them. However, coming under a spiritualized form of the Law will hinder God’s blessing in finances. The poor should simply obey the Lord as He guides them in giving.

Bonus Question. The Bible teaches that everyone should give ten-percent of their ongoing income. False. The modern practice of tithing has five basic elements expressed as everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. How do Bible facts about tithing actually fit with this teaching? Let’s compare and contrast the modern teaching of tithing with the Bible.

Everyone gives 10% of ongoing income.Considering the “Everyone” element. The two events before the Law do not support the idea that everyone should pay tithe. Only Abraham and Jacob in each situation are paying tithe. Genesis doesn’t record anyone else tithing. Abraham and Jacob don’t seem to teach their children to tithe. One of Jacob’s children, Joseph, is a particularly righteous man. In the more than ten detailed chapters devoted to Joseph, we don’t discover him tithing either. Not everyone tithed in Genesis before the Law.

In the Law of Moses, not everyone was required to tithe or give firstfruits. Only those who were actually growing food or raising sheep or cattle were required by the Law to tithe the food or present firstfruits. People from other occupations were not required to tithe since they had no harvest or growth of flocks to tithe or to present firstfruits from. Not everyone tithed food who lived under the Law. No one under the Law tithed money at all.
Christ has only a few words to say about tithing. In those words, Christ does not say that everyone should tithe. He says that unbelieving Jews living under the Law should tithe food if they are growing it. He mentions three food plants. Christ is not addressing His disciples. He is addressing unbelieving Pharisees.
The apostle Paul does not teach that everyone is obligated to tithe or to even to give. He teaches that giving is completely voluntary. The first apostolic council in Acts Chapter 15 does not say that Gentile believers should tithe either. There is absolutely no evidence that any Gentile Christian in the First Century ever tithed anything. Here is what the Encyclopedia Americana says about the history of tithing:"It was not practiced in the early Christian church but gradually became common (in the Roman Catholic church in western Europe) by the 6th Century. The Council of Tours in 567 and the second Council of Macon in 585 advocated tithing. Made obligatory by civil law in the Carolingian empire in 765 and in England in the 10th Century... The Reformation did not abolish tithing and the practice was continued in the Roman Catholic church and in Protestant countries... (until it was) gradually replaced by other forms of taxation. The Roman Catholic church still prescribes tithes in countries where they are sanctioned by law, and some Protestant bodies consider tithes obligatory."
2/4/2011 5:42:17 PM
suzie United States
suzie
i have a comment i couldn't help but to voice. my name is suzie and you can contact me at lilsuzieq8429@yahoo.com. a lady called in and asked if it was ok to stop tithing out of her gross and start tithing out of her net becuz her accountant advised her to and you said you thought it would be ok at least until she was able to go back to giving it out of her gross. well i thought we are supossed to tothe by faith whether you think you can make it or not becuz somehopw God will make it work.
2/4/2011 9:09:18 PM
Bascomb Grecian United States
Bascomb Grecian
Suzie,

The correct anwer to the question above, (tithe out of gross or net income) IS Neither!

We are not called to tithe ANYTHING in The NEW COVENANT. We are called to be "generous" frewill givers.

2 Corinthians 9:7 -Does NOT Say tithe 10% of your income, does it???

"Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

I am SO, SO, tired of this "junk" being preached to the church. It is totally bogus!
2/5/2011 9:39:45 PM
Caleb United States
Caleb
    Mr.Bascomb   please be quite!!   All you are doing is arguing!!!    Just to let you know I am a 10%  Tithe Cheerfull giver!!  So do you call me a devil for  giving to God 10%?  Plus I also that that God was the same yesterday,today and forever.    What about the ten commandments?  If we are not under God's law then why  are the ten commanments there?!!   God did not say that discounted the old testament but that he came to fullfill it.    Read 2 Timothy3:16  ALL SCRIPTURE!!   That means that if we do not recieve all the word of God then we  are missing something.    It so sad to see  people  believe only the new testement or the old!!!   Without one verse from the Bible were would we be.  Without the old phrophets  phrofhesying of the life of Jesus then  how would we have learned about salvation?!!   Recieve all of God not half of God!!    This is God's Word so recieve it all!!!     I love you brother but to see you come take something positive and turn it inot a religiouse argument is so sad!!!   This is not about you nor your opion but about what God is trying to teach us.    Plus brother what is 10% out of 20 dollers 2 dollars so why argue over so little!!   Let us give to God what isrightly his anyway!!   I dare you to tithe 10% and see what you will learn from it because for you to take something so little and make it such a big issue shows how unhappy you are.   If you were truly happy you would not arugue but pray that we all give our best to God with a glad heart!!  Plus saving baby lives is more importint to fight against then someone's eleses belief that they believe is right.
2/7/2011 9:19:46 PM
Bascomb Grecian United States
Bascomb Grecian
Caleb,

We are under Grace! The New Covenent. We do not go by the "10 Commandments" that in Old Covenant. Please "rightly" divide the word.

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone (THE 10 COMMANDMENTS), came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

We have one command under Grace...1 John 3:23....

Do that and everything is fullfilled!

WE NO LONGER HAVE TO TITHE ANYTHING.....
2/15/2011 5:31:17 PM
Matt United States
Matt
Scott and Kelli, I listen to K-Love pretty much all day every day, and you are the only thing that makes doing schoolwork fun! Please tell Kelli I hope she gets better soon.
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